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 THOUGHT CRIMES BILL

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jayhawk21
hafbaked
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hafbaked
JV



Posts : 27
Join date : 2008-01-12

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PostSubject: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 7:38 pm

"H.R. 1955 - THOUGHT CRIMES BILL or as it is really known as: H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

Oct 23, 2007: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The vote was held under a suspension of the rules to cut debate short and pass the bill, needing a two-thirds majority. The totals were 404 Ayes, 6 Nays, 22 Present/Not Voting.

If passed into law, this bill will establish a commission and a Center of Excellence to study and defeat "thought criminals". Some critics say that with this bill the government turns its own citizens into criminals, enforcing only the thoughts, ideas, words that it approves or tolerates.

The wording of the bill itself seems pretty non-threatening. However, it still does bring up the vague notion of "thought crime" and it gives law enforcement more strength to do something about those who have certain ideas.

Just look at the definitions:

`SEC. 899A. DEFINITIONS.

`For purposes of this subtitle:

`(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.


So, what will this commission decide is an "extremist belief system"? Is any idea that goes against the government considered an "extreme belief system"?
What constitutes "planned use"? Just thinking about something? Writing about something? What constitutes intimidated or coercing the US government in order to further a political or social objective? This bill is so vague that it is very dangerous.

The definition of homegrown terrorism is also pretty vague in defining thought crime. Planned use of force or violence could be interpreted as just thinking about using force or violence, and the definition is really vaguely defined here. Could rallies, meetings, marches, or small crimes fall into the category of homegrown terrorism? With this type of legislation the activities of organizations like The Sons Of Liberty (1765) and The Loyal Nine would have been deemed extremist! While I do not condone terrorism, especially Islamic terrorism, we still need the means in this country to dissent and protest and fight back if our own government becomes tyrannical. What means would we have to fight a dictatorship with laws like this in place?

This bill is also an obvious first strike on the Internet freedom that we enjoy.
The bill mentions that the Internet is a main source for terrorist propaganda! That would obviously target Internet radio networks and blogs and websites. The bill also mentions that homegrown terrorists span all ages and races - so Congress is stating in this bill that everyone is a potential terrorist. Can you also believe that Congress stated in their findings section that they should look at Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom as models to defeat homegrown terrorists! The funniest thing about this bill is that it promises not to violate the constitutional rights of citizens, yet it is plain to see that this bill is UnConstitutional because our Constitution does not allow the government to arrest people for thought crimes in the first place!"
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jayhawk21
JV



Posts : 38
Join date : 2008-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 7:44 pm

The language of your link seems biased, half truthed and alarmist. Is there anyone who can paraphrase the actual bill?
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tekkND
JV Waterboy



Posts : 7
Join date : 2008-01-18

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PostSubject: Re: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 7:49 pm

Another opinion.

“Political language has to consist largely of euphemisms . . . and sheer cloudy vagueness.” - George Orwell.

H.R 1955: the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 recently passed by the House—a companion bill is in the Senate—is barely one sentence old before its Orwellian moment:

It begins, “AN ACT - To prevent homegrown terrorism, and for other purposes.”

Read the rest at: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=67168
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Latrell S.
JV Waterboy



Posts : 8
Join date : 2008-01-12

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PostSubject: Re: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 7:55 pm

"If you question why America is in the mess it is in today, then you had better come up with an answer that is acceptable to the thought police. This is just fine-tuning the un-Constitutional restrictions of the "Patriot Act," which gave the authorities the power to learn what we were reading, who we were talking to and what we had to say. Now they want the power to know our thoughts, so that they can limit our beliefs."

Read rest at:
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/opinions/x1923602876

Source: Huntington, West Virginia newspaper.
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walkinglizard
JV



Posts : 54
Join date : 2008-01-21

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PostSubject: Re: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 7:59 pm

"As the media daily reports government abuses of individual civil and constitutional rights in the name of the “war against terrorism,” and as the now Democratic-controlled Congress continues to hold public hearings on the worst of these abuses, a new threat to the civil liberties of Americans quietly wends its way through the halls of Congress."4

Read rest at:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jan/0...liberties/

Source:
Lawrence-Journal world
The World Company is the leading news source in the Lawrence community, employing nearly 600 people in a variety of departments that support all of its multimedia endeavors
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spikespiegel
scrub



Posts : 2
Join date : 2008-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: THOUGHT CRIMES BILL   THOUGHT CRIMES BILL EmptyMon Jan 21, 2008 8:52 pm

HOMEGROWN TERRORISM.—The term
24 ‘homegrown terrorism’ means the use, planned use,
25 or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or
26 individual born, raised, or based...


Why does it say force or violence, aren't they the same thing?

The word force is much too vague. These are the definitions for force currently.

Force:
1. physical power or strength possessed by a living being: He used all his force in opening the window.
2. strength or power exerted upon an object; physical coercion; violence: to use force to open the window; to use force on a person.
3. strength; energy; power; intensity: a personality of great force.
4. power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order.
5. Law. unlawful violence threatened or committed against persons or property.
6. persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his arguments.
7. mental or moral strength: force of character.
8. might, as of a ruler or realm; strength for war.
9. Often, forces. the military or fighting strength, esp. of a nation.
10. any body of persons combined for joint action: a sales force.
11. intensity or strength of effect: the force of her acting.

Definitions 4 and 6 become a problem if that is what the bill is entailing.

That means someone who has the power to influence, persuade or convince others can be considered a terrorist. This would include a wide spectrum of people, from Christian fundamentalists, jehovah witnesses, MLK, Gandhi, KKK, Muslim fundamentalists etc.
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